EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

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rogerk8
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EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 21.09.2018, 21:22

Gruss got!

Ich komme aus schweden und ist nicht so gut in deutch aber es macht mir sehr spass versuchen.

Als ich ein kind war meinen gross-mutter hat mir EE2003-EE2006 gegeben.

Dieser baukäufts hat mir sehr spass gegeben.

Jetzt ich habe dieser alte baukästen fast vergessen und das habt mit mir alt gehatten werden (aber nich so alt, 50 jahre zu morgen).

Ich hab dann ein renovieren projekt gestarted, ein freund als mich hat die platte vom plywood gemacht, diser platte werde Philips-blau gemalt.

Es war ganz schwer mit dem rotierend kondensatoren aber ich habe hilfe von EF forum freund gehabt.

Jetzt nur OA95, BA217, BC238, BC328 und BF194 verpassen ist.

Dieser ist aber nicht wahr als ich auch kleine transistor pcb auch brauche.

Mein plan is to pcb laminate reiben.

Entshuldigung mir för mein schlechtes deutch, ich hoffe nich alles ist nich verständlich.

MVH/Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 24.09.2018, 20:31

willkommen - welcome

und die meisten hier verstehen auch ganz gut Englisch wenn dir das weiter hilft. Ich habe dein Problem mit den Transistoren nicht verstanden, kannst du das bitte noch mal erklären?

and most people here understand English quite well, if that helps you a bit. I did not understand your problems with the transistors, could you rephrase that?

liebe Gruesse
Michael
:oops: Selbst ein schlechtes Experiment bildet die Wirklichkeit besser ab als eine gute Simulation.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Helferlein » 24.09.2018, 20:48

Herzlich willkommen im Forum!

Schön, dass Dich unsere Leidenschaft für (Elektronik-)Baukästen zu uns geführt hat. Wenn Du Dich im Forum umsiehst, wirst Du feststellen, dass ich mich mit 3D-Druck beschäftige. Vielleicht kann ich Dir bei der einen oder anderen Rekonstruktion helfen.

Mit der Sprache das wird schon funktionieren. Du kannst auch auf schwedisch schreiben. Für was gibt es google-Translator ;-).

Es grüßt vom Rhein
das Helferlein

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 02.10.2018, 20:36

Hello and welcome to the forum of fun :P

What a great looking plywood construction board you have !
We would love to help you in the reconstruction of your EE set.
Maybe you can set up a goal first, what would you like to achieve ? What parts do you need ?

I have some "New Old Stock" parts like capacitors and resistors and transistors, so perhaps there are parts that you might need.
The springs can still be found at Winkler Schulbedarf.

greetings
Frank
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― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 16.10.2018, 21:09

Physiker66 hat geschrieben:
24.09.2018, 20:31
willkommen - welcome

und die meisten hier verstehen auch ganz gut Englisch wenn dir das weiter hilft. Ich habe dein Problem mit den Transistoren nicht verstanden, kannst du das bitte noch mal erklären?

and most people here understand English quite well, if that helps you a bit. I did not understand your problems with the transistors, could you rephrase that?

liebe Gruesse
Michael
Thank you!

I think it is better that I continue in english, I am not the very best in that language either but I am for certain better than in German except for the fact that it is actually more fun writing in German, lots more difficult but also more fun.

Anyway, I am reaching towards Germany because I have studied the German language for six years but I have never been able to really use it, I wish to use it but bear with me if I sometimes switch to english when it comes to technical details that is very hard (work) for me to explain in German, in spite of Google translate.

I will try to write as much as I can in German, but right now there are som details to be explained.

My first post displayed the semi conductors I lacked, that is OA95 (1pc), BA217 (3pcs), BC238 (2pcs), BC328 (2pcs) and BF194 (2pcs).

I am still lacking those but yeasterday a nice guy on my swedish electronics forum (EF) contacted me when he saw my thread and it turned out that he actually had BC238A/B/C and BC328 (gain unknown) and he had had quite many OA95 according to his list but he was all out when I asked, I am not sure how I wish to do with BF194, he had none but I actually have some BF254 which my databooks tells is the same, but I really not wish to use that.

So now I maily miss one OA95 and three BA217, after that exactly all EE-components are "safe", all I have to do after that is to build my Philips-desk and six small and cute PCB-boards for the transistors.

BUT I do not know what gain the transistors should have, which is why I am writing here.

I think the hfe-letters for BC238 are: A, B, C where A is the lowest hfe, right?

The hfe-numgers for BC328 are (perhaps): 16, 25, 40 (I only believe).

The hfe for BF194: one only.

I think that this may not be so important but I want it to be right, so can anyone please tell me the hfe notations for the transistors?

Best regards, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 16.10.2018, 22:31

Helferlein hat geschrieben:
24.09.2018, 20:48
Herzlich willkommen im Forum!

Schön, dass Dich unsere Leidenschaft für (Elektronik-)Baukästen zu uns geführt hat. Wenn Du Dich im Forum umsiehst, wirst Du feststellen, dass ich mich mit 3D-Druck beschäftige. Vielleicht kann ich Dir bei der einen oder anderen Rekonstruktion helfen.

Mit der Sprache das wird schon funktionieren. Du kannst auch auf schwedisch schreiben. Für was gibt es google-Translator ;-).

Es grüßt vom Rhein
das Helferlein
Hello Helferlein!

Danke sehr fur dein wort.

Ich habe ein freund das mein holz prozess kann, er hat dieser kupplungsplatte mit laser getun.

Er hat auch das katheder machen zu versprechen.

Jetzt ich habe alle mechaniche sache als ich för die katheter zu planieren.

Die katheter werde nicht genau als original gemacht aber es funtionieren werde.

Einige sachen werde als original aber einige sachen werde nicht als original, die druckschalter werde zum beispiel ausschliesshen, die 47k potentiometer werde auch ausschliessen als diesem nicht so qualitativ sein.

Jetz muss ich essen, ich werde mit Ihnen zum morgen sprechen.

Mit freundlichen grussen, Roger
PS
Sprechen deutch macht mir sehr spass :)
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 17.10.2018, 14:17

I measured a couple of white and red transistors I have available. Here the hfe:

White (from 2003): 291, 562,514, 540,
White (old from 1007): 70,65, 98, 90,135, 165
red: 41, 45, 37, 36

so I don't think the exact HFE values are so important :)

have fun
Michael
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 17.10.2018, 17:51

Thank you Physiker66!

Strange differences in the hfe values!

With regard to this I agree with you that hfe does not seem so important.

However, I have BC238A/B/C (White) on the way to my home so I could choose if I like but only if I know what to choose.

I also have BC328 (Green) on the way to my home but that one has a "fixed" hfe of a kind I can't choose.

I am almost as bad in english as in German :)

Best regards, Roger
PS
BF194 (Rot) hast kein problem als es nur eines hfe hat (67, ich glaube), ich habe kein BF194 aber ich habe BF254 mit halbes des frequenzvärte.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 17.10.2018, 18:19

Frankje hat geschrieben:
02.10.2018, 20:36
Hello and welcome to the forum of fun :P

What a great looking plywood construction board you have !
We would love to help you in the reconstruction of your EE set.
Maybe you can set up a goal first, what would you like to achieve ? What parts do you need ?

I have some "New Old Stock" parts like capacitors and resistors and transistors, so perhaps there are parts that you might need.
The springs can still be found at Winkler Schulbedarf.

greetings
Frank
Thank you!

Please excuse me for not replying yeasterday, the hour got late.

A friend of mine has made the board by using laser, cutting holes in three mm plywood.

I am on the edge of getting all the mechanical components I want so that I can start the manufacturing of the "desk" (not knowing if that is the correct name), I only miss a solid 47kB potentimeter from ALPS that I prefere before Philips smart version.

Then I will add some features to the desk, I early prefered to solder all the pots, switches and stuff to the springs, I was not so keen on using tiny springs all the time for the connections, it is however a good approach if you are young and do not have a soldering iron.

My desk will threfore hold TWO rows of springs, this is necesary if all the gadgets should be able to have a spring connection so that you can access them from "above", a single row is simply not enough.

So in the front of my desk there will be 24+24 springs to connect to and when it is that way, you will never have to turn the desk upside down (except for trimming the dual ganged capacitor).

My friend that made the board for me has promised to help with making the desk also but I have not heard from him for some time so I am afraid he can't help me again.

I have enough springs, thank you for your tip!, but what I right now seem to really miss is one OA95 (diode) and three BA217 (diodes), the transistors seem to be under control excdept that I have to CAD some tiny PCBs for them (which I probably will do by using the rubbing symbol methode).

Best regards, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 17.10.2018, 20:59

Hello Roger,

Nice to hear you have almost all parts.
I have the OA95 diode and as the other diodes, I have the BAV21 as substitute.
So, if you're interested I will calculate the shipping costs for you.
The transistor Hfe's are not too important, only the bf184 or bf194 should be critical since these are used in HF stages.

For the circuit boards, forum member Ingo63 made a few of these, maybe you can ask him for some.

I hope you will have the console also fabricated in the same material as the board, this would like awesome !

Greetings,
Frank
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― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 18.10.2018, 17:30

Hello Frankje!

Thank you very much!

I would very much like to buy those diodes from you!

Today have checked that the shipment cost for a letter from Sweden to Germany is somewhere around 2 Euro and I recon the shipment cost the other way around is approximatelly the same.

My offer to you, if you choose to accept it, is 20 Euro for OA95 (2pcs) and BAV91 (4pcs), shipment included but I pay the bank transfer fee.

Best regards, Roger
PS
I have never made a payment abroad before so I am a little confused.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Ingo63 » 19.10.2018, 18:21

Hej Roger,
welcome to the forum.
Do you need transistor-PCB's,
look at this:
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I have two stripe to sale.
I can give you this for a Euro apiece,
two stripe = 2,00 Euro + shipping and packaging 0,90
Total = 2,90 Euro -> 30 Svenska kronor
If you want her, send me a PN
MfG
Ingo
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Und werft nie ein Q wenn ihr die Folgen nicht abschätzen könnt ( frei nach Douglas Adams ).

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 27.10.2018, 17:53

Hello!

I just want to show a cople of pictures of transistror PCBs I recently got from Ingo63.

I love these PCBs :)

Best regards, Roger
PS
Ich danke Ingo sehr!
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 01.11.2018, 17:27

I wish to add a picture that is not so important but is part of my work while constructing Die Platte.

A friend of mine made die platte using laser then I turned it over and glued a frame beneath die platte.

The frame was made of 8X8mm pine wood because I had come to the conclusion that that would suffice with regard to spring space at the edges.

And the springs fits rather good within this frame (each hole in die platte is 5mm and 15mm apart, at the end of platte they are is also 15mm from edge, cc).

I have started to plan the console, it is not an easy job but I will use 2mm thin plywood and 8X8mm pine wood as "skeleton", I don't know if I will use 2mm all over, maybe I will convert to 4mm for strength, however the sides really need 2mm to make room for the springs.

Hope you understand what I mean, I hardly understant it myself :)

Best regards, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 02.11.2018, 19:02

One of our forum members makes reprints of half sized consoles and offers them on ebay - see viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2188 and viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2062&p=13939&hilit=druck#p13939for examples.

happy hacking
Michael
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 02.11.2018, 19:34

Thank you for this tip!

I see that Helferlein also makes lamp covers, I have only one left so my plan up to now has been to omit the lamp covers BUT now that seem not so neccessary.

Then I see that his post from Mars last year has generated over 5000 hits, how is this even possible? :)

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
PS
Another picture of die platte, here you can see how the laser has burt through the plywood.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 03.11.2018, 23:39

I just want to show you how my platte works.

It is nothing special, just fun.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 04.11.2018, 15:40

I though about something - have you checked resistivity of the plate between holes?

happy hacking
Michael
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 04.11.2018, 16:55

Hello Physiker66!

I have now looked up the resistivity of wood vs PVC in my Physics Handbook, they were the same that is some 10^12 [Ohm m].

So wood is equally good an insolator as PVC (which is often used as wire insolation).

However, I think you are kind of worried about the burnt holes were Carbon has been created which is quite a good electric conductor BUT there are only carbon rests for say some tenth of a millimeter in the holes which are 15mm apart so I will not measure that because it is no probem.

Thank you for your comment, you made me learn about wood vs PVC resistivity!

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
PS
I add a picture of my current EE collection, at this moment I seem to miss one BF194 only (one is thankfully on the way but I need two) and perhaps even those three BA217 even though I am getting equivalent types and finally I miss an 47kB ALPS potentiometer that I prefere even though I have an 47kB (S-curve) potentiometer. After this I will plan and build my consol. The yellow plastic capacitors are sadly not of Philips recommended type since they are of polypropylen, this happend because axial polyester capacitors are kind of hard to get in hold of, I do however suspect that it would not matter.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 04.11.2018, 19:37

Hello Roger,

It seems that your EE kit seems to get complete.
Do you have the variable capacitors ?
Sorry, didn't know you needed 2 BF194's, I still have a few of them.
I even have the original (but new made) blue Philips capacitors, but I think you can still find these with your electronic retailer.
Have you also the small PCB's for the transistors ?
Have you also the LM3900 module ?
Too many questions :lol: this makes me wanting constructing with the EE system again.
But first, I have to finish the Busch modules ...

I'm curious to see your circuit on the board. :P

Greetings
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― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 04.11.2018, 20:27

Hello Frankje!

Yes, I fantasticly enough have the two variable capacitors (5-180pF dual gang and 5-180pF single gang), but that was not so easy.

I had the dual gang but the single gang, I got from a friend.

I will contact you about the BF194, hope you want to sell me two more?

I actually have the blue electrolytic capacitors, I bought a brand called Vishay, very Philips looking so I am content with those.

If you look higher up in the thread you can see that I have bought the transistor PCBs from Ingo63 (at a too low a price I might add).

Best regards, Roger
PS
I do not know what the LM3900 module is.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 05.11.2018, 15:35

rogerk8 hat geschrieben:
04.11.2018, 16:55
I have now looked up the resistivity of wood vs PVC in my Physics Handbook, they were the same that is some 10^12 [Ohm m].

So wood is equally good an insolator as PVC (which is often used as wire insolation).
That is correct, but depends on the type (and dryness) of would. I would suggest you measure between 2 springs with a standard multimeter. if the resistance is higher than 20MOhm you are good, otherwise you might run into a problem.

happy hacking
Michael
:oops: Selbst ein schlechtes Experiment bildet die Wirklichkeit besser ab als eine gute Simulation.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 05.11.2018, 17:33

Hello Physiker66!

I did exactly what you suggested.

I began by testing my Fluke 23 DVM with regard to how high resistance it can measure by connecting two 10M resistors in series which gave me a 20M reading.

Then I measured between the two springs on my platte and got overload as reading which means that my platte is good, right?

I really like your questions because they always teaches me something, this time I learned that my DVM can measure 20M or more, thank you!

Mit Freundlichen Grûssen, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Physiker66 » 05.11.2018, 21:16

yes, you should be good :)

I had once bad experience with wood ... and 60kV :)

happy hacking
Michael
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 07.11.2018, 23:22

I have a friend that made me die platte, he has given me this photo that he claims he can produce.

I have not spoken to him for a while but I hope he can make a consol like that.

Today I have planned the preliminary dimensions of the consol and that is 50X100X375mm, a two row platte will be added (45mm wide).

Dimensions are external, he will probably use 3mm plywood.

Mit Freudlichen Grüssen, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 21.11.2018, 20:33

Santa Claus visited me early this year :)

A friend I met in my swedish forum suddenly wanted to give me an almost complete EE2003.

With that comes a Platte and my long lost consule, almost all the other components I already had.

This changes my strategy.

I now wish to give this EE2003-box to the son of my best friend, the EE2003-EE2006 box I have collected will however be stripped of the EE2003 content because I am NOT giving up my plan for a wooden Platte and consule and obviously I would like to be able to use some components too.

So I am thinking that I will try to make this EE2003 box fully complete then I will give him this box on his 10:th birthday (he is seven today so there is no rush :) ), BUT the other boxes he will have to wait for at least one birthday.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 24.11.2018, 20:06

Hello Roger,
What a great Santa gift you got there !
So, you can perhaps now complete the missing parts of your wooden set.
Is the manual included and if so, in Swedish or German ?
Which reminds me, have you visited http://norbert.old.no/kits/ee2000/ee2003.html yet ?
Or this https://ee.old.no/library/ ?
It has lots of information concerning the EE series.
Can’t you share a circuit build on your wooden plates ?
Greetings
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― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 25.11.2018, 22:06

Hello Frankje!

I thought I answered your nice post but obviously I did not, sorry?

The manual actually is included, it is in Swedish.

I visited both you nice sites, they were interesting and I downloaded the manual for EE2007/8 (in German) just in case that will happen.

So you wish to se a design on my wooden plate, I like very much to here you say that but I really need the console first.

I have "created" three places were EE-components are located, one is my new original EE2003-box (I call that one Jens), one is a Raaco-box of my own EE2003-components (I call that one RKP) and finally a Raaco-box of EE2004-EE2006 (I call that one Zeke).

My plan now is to copy the component lists out of the manuals and then carefully try to complete the boxes, my box called RKP is not that sensitive to be complete because what matters is more like being able to experiment, the other boxes I do however need to make complete.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Helferlein » 02.12.2018, 13:56

Hallo Roger,

auch ich habe vor Jahren, noch weit vor meinen 3d-Aktivitäten, einmal mit Nachbauten der Philips-Steckboards experimentiert. Jetzt habe ich die Konstruktion in meinem Bastelschrank wieder entdeckt. Zuletzt hatte ich wohl ein Röhrenaudion aufgebaut. Bevor ich mich eventuell von dem "Kasten" trenne, möchte ich das "Ding" hier noch einmal kurz vorstellen.

Das Steckborad im Gehäuse wurde aus handelsüblichen Teilen (Baumarkt) zusammengestellt. Im Wesentlichen sind das 10x10mm Leisten, 4mm Sperrholz (2xA5) und Hartfaserplatten (3mm) mit 15mm Lochraster (Bohrungen D=4mm) und eine Frontblende ausgedruckt auf Fotopapier. Wie ich mich schwach erinnere, ließ sich der Mensch vom Holzzuschnitt nicht dazu überreden die Lochrasterplatten so zuzuschneiden, dass die Rasterfläche zentriert ist. Es ist sogar eine 2. Ebene vorgesehen gewesen.

Hier ein paar Fotos zur Visualisierung:

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Wer Lust hat kann das "Ding" ja Nachbauen ;-).

Es grüßt vom Rhein
das Helferlein


Und nun auf Schwedisch, wenn goggle da mal nicht aus "Steckbord" ein "Brotbrett" gemacht hat. Lustig wäre das allemal.


Hej Roger,

För många år sedan, långt före mina 3D-aktiviteter, experimenterade jag en gång med replika av Philips-styrelserna. Nu återupptäckte jag byggnaden i mitt hantverkskåp. Senast hade jag förmodligen satt upp ett rörljud. Innan jag skiljer mig från "rutan" vill jag kort introducera "sak" här igen.

Steckborad i huset var monterad från kommersiella delar (hårdvaruaffär). I grund och botten är 10x10mm-remsorna, 4mm plywood (2xA5) och hardboard (3mm) med 15mm galler (hål D = 4mm) och en frontpanel tryckt på fotopapper. Som jag svagt minns, övertalade skogen inte personen att skära brödbrädet så att gridytan är centrerad. Det har till och med fått en andra nivå.

Om du känner för att göra "sak" ja bygga om.

Det hälsar Rhen
hjälpen

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 02.12.2018, 17:09

Hallo Helferlein!

Schönes "ding" Sie gemacht haben!

Und schönes platte sie gekauft haben!

Ich möchte aber Ihnen erzählen als ich auch eine platte von "Baumarkt" gekauft habe, ich began meinen renovieren mit diser platte aber die raster war nur 13mm so ich konnte dieser platte nicht benutzen, ich hatte das gesehen wenn ich mit Philips original sachen experimentiert.

So es tut mir ein bisschen leid als ich einen freund meine platte machen musst.

Meine platte ist denn fertig aber ich muss auch die pulpet machen und das ist miene nechte schritt.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 03.02.2019, 20:31

Ich habe jetzt mein pulpet planiert.

Ich werde zwei reihen frühling benutzt.

Eine reihe sind 24 anzahl aus, zwei reihen sind 48 anzahl aus.

So ich kann 48 kontakten benutzen und als ich denke gehabt vielen anderen komponenten denn mag benutzt werden.

Jetzt ich werde das pulpet planieren als ich jetzt gar nichts verpassen.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 09.05.2019, 19:55

Hello!

I have now spray-painted one of the above tiny PCBs nicely bought from Ingo with blue color.

The blue color is for FET-PCBs and I have at least four of them.

While blue is not a Philips PCB color I am thinking BF245A for these PCBs.

Another advantage with blue is that I am allowed to test and try out the painting procedure.

And I have learned some, make the board perfectly square before you paint, ortherwise it will turn white where you cut.

I have used something called maskinglatex to cover the nice text while painting, this works fine but gets easily irregular in size.

Removal of latex with a tweezer works very fine and actually is a better approach than expected, especially when the paint has dried (the border PCB-latex is otherwise something that could constitute a "crack").

I am satisfied with this, next step is to cut the other three PCBs nicely and paint them all at the same time, then I will solder BF245A onto them.

Best regards, Roger
PS
Finally I will buy white, green and red paint for BC238, BC328 and BF194 respectively.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 11.05.2019, 20:37

Hello Roger,

Nice to hear back from you again.
It seems you found a way to colorise your PCB’s.
Another way to do this (just like I do at work to repaint frontplates) is to cut small adhesive paper strokes to cover the Upper and lower part. So you will still see the symbols.
After painting, before drying completely, just remove these and you have a rectangular cutout.
Much easier and less messy.
I noticed you painted the pcb (for the BF245) blue, it should be yellow :shock:
Many greetings
“All the electronic devices are powered by white smoke. When smoke goes out, device is dead.”
― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 12.05.2019, 19:26

Hello Frank!

Thank you for your reply.

I have thought of something adhesive but it will be more difficult to apply them in correct angles, also you can not reuse the adhesive/tape so you will have to create new ones for every pair of letters.

I am fascinated that BF245 already has its color, didn't know that, I just knew that red, white and green was taken.

Best regards, Roger
PS
Yesterday I got a new idea on how to color-mark the transistors, this idea is so simple that it is hard to think of. I will however not tell you about this idea until I have created it and taken a photo of it to post here, more fun that way :)

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von JeanLuc7 » 13.05.2019, 11:15

Hi Roger,
I just knew that red, white and green was taken.
actually, many colors have already been taken:

red: BF194/BF494
white: BC238/BC548
blue: BC158/BC558
green: BC328
yellow: BF244/BF245

Also, orange has been used as base color for the infrared diode in EE2017. All additional PCB's for capacitor diodes or LED use white as base color.

For my set of PCB's, I created a self-adhesive sheet with the complete transistor prints. In this case, I only have to cut out the oval holes for mounting.

BR

Frank/JL7
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 13.05.2019, 21:56

Hi Frank & Frank!

Today I made it happen, I marked (not painted) one BF245A with a yellow dot.

Frankje had told me that the color for BF245 was yellow and now you too tells me that so I decided to change my blue color to yellow.

But I did not buy a spray-can of yellow paint, I just bought a small Humbrol can (14mL) and marked using a match.

So what do you think, is this new approach better or worse?

Best regards, Roger
PS
An advantage is that you can see through the PCB then you are determining which holes to use, spraying it all blue takes away that advantage.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 15.05.2019, 21:41

I have now painted all four BF245A-using PCBs.

I have used my plywood board to test the transistors.

I have tested something I call Rdss, that is connection of GS together and measureing the resistance from Drain to GS.

I get something like 250+/-100 Ohms for the lot, I have also tested what happens when Gate is not connected, some 2M Ohms.

Next step is to prepare the PCBs for the other three colors.

Best regards, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 24.05.2019, 20:22

Hello!

I have now finished soldering and painting both BF245A and BC328.

BF245A is on all four PCBs, BC328 is also on all four PCBs BUT I have two kinds.

Frank gave me one kind, BC328-40.

A swedish friend in my forum gave me another kind, BC328-T.

I have measured:
BC328-T: 328/332 hfe
BC328-40: 416/519 hfe

So they differ some, unlikely of any major importance but 40-version do have higher gain.

I am about to finish BC238 too but lack color, BC238 has a story of its own to tell because it is not simple :)

Hopefully I will manage to buy a tiny Humbrol can of white paint tomorrow, then I will get back to you in two days.

Best regards, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 25.05.2019, 10:33

Hello Roger,

I really like the dot painting of the transistors. I like it much better than painting the PCB.
Regarding your transistors, did you mean BC238-40 instead of BC328 ?
They are not the same.

In the Philips EE circuits, the gain is always calculated in a way that every Hfe transistor can be used (sometimes substitute transistors were soldered on the transistor PCB's).
In most circuits, the BC238 transistor serves as driver or output transistor. The Hfe doesn't play a significant role.
On the other hand, the BF194 transitor (red) needs a well calculated circuit since it is mainly used as preamplifier or HF amplifier.
So you can use whatever Hfe for the BC238.

Try some circuits of the EE manual to see for yourself.
Good luck
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 25.05.2019, 20:39

Hello Frank!

Thank you!

What I meant is that I have two kinds of BC328 that differ rather much in hfe.

I do not know if this is important but I am just telling you this as well as showing you some fugures above.

Now, BC238 is another thing mainly because it is a NPN (BC328 is a PNP) and I just said that they have a story on their on, which I now will reveal.

I have two "types" of BC238C which I found fascinating, the type I so kindly got from you actually do not follow databook configuration and is "mirrored" when it comes to databook configuration that is that E and C has been switched, another fascinating thing is that this actually is printed on the capsule!

Extremly seldom you see ECB printed om the capsule!

But in this case it is actually neccesary because it does not follow databook, one other thing is that base pin is tilted towards you (flat side towards you) which is uncommon but gives you a hint that this transistor does not follow convention.

So soldering your two BC238C and my friend's two BC238C on the tiny PCBs required me to be very careful.

Today I have dot-painted all four BC238C.

The paint dries a little slow so I will wait until monday to buy the last color, red as in BF194.

Best regards, Roger
PS
I wiill however destroy the BF194 markings when I paint it in the same manner, this is because BF194 marking is on top of transistor.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 26.05.2019, 21:09

I am now finished with BC238 (white).

I did however had to turn Frank's transistor 180 degrees because they did not follow convention but I am very happy anyway :)

Hfe for the transistors from left to righ in picture is:

BC238C_F: 467, BC238C_F: 375, BC238C: 685, BC238C: 590

Here I have denoted the transistors from Frank with an F.

Some difference but I doubt there are any problems, a fun feature is however that the F-transistors are flipped :)

Best regards, Roger
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 27.05.2019, 22:44

I have now soldered and painted my four BF194.

Two of them comes from Frank, these BF194 has tenn plated pins and they have the text printed on top of capsule.

The other two comes from Mange71 a swedish forum friend, his BF194 has golden pins and the text is printed on the side.

I dotted red paint on top of capsule anyway.

I was thorough with these transistors because I recently learned (BC238C_F) that you can not always trust databooks, so I measured hfe with my Appa76 before soldering, after I measured the first transistor I did however not measure anymore.

Hfe was low by the way, just above 100.

I will measure all four hfe when the paint has dried.

Always fun to write here :)

Best regards, Roger
PS
Today I received some screws for the assembly of the double-ganged capacitor onto consule, Philips noted M2,6 which I interpreted as M2X6 but it was actually M2,5X4 (I had to use a saw :) ). All I now lack is the manuals for EE2003 and EE2004-EE2006, I actually have them but that is for personal use so I need to print both of them to be able to give this gift to my friend's son (7 years old now, his dad is a physisist...) and printing is really expensive, some $40 for 100 pages.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von Frankje » 28.05.2019, 19:45

Hello Roger,
Perhaps you know this already, but you can find all manuals on this site : https://ee.old.no/library/
You can give them a copy on a USB stick and they can print out what they need.
Greetings
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― Milan Nikolic

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 28.05.2019, 20:52

Hello Frank!

No, i didn't know that so thank you very much!

I did however not quite understand what you mean, would you mind reprasing it?

I am finished with my tiny PCB boards now, I have all the transistors I need thanks to you and some other guys.

Now I can configure my gift of EE-boxes and the EE-boxes of my own (I am renovating to sets of boxes, actually).

Now I only lack some cheap way of printing the manuals which I have stored on my USB stick.

Best regards, Roger
PS
Here are the results for the "matrix":
1) Gul: BF245A_R: 187 Ohm, BF245A_R: 321 Ohm, BF245A_R: 225 Ohm, BF245A_R: 252 Ohm [Rdss]
2) Grön: BC328T_X: 328, BC328-40_F: 590, BC328T_X: 332, BC328-40_F: 416 [hfe]
3) Vit: BC238C_F: 467, BC238C_F: 375, BC238C_X: 685, BC238C_X: 590 [hfe]
4) Röd: BF194_M: 43, BF194_M: 40, BF194_F: 148, BF194_F: 140 [hfe]

R: me
X: a guy namned X-IL
M: a guy namned Mange74
F: You

The fat ones are the ones chosen to give away as a gift because they are most tightly matched.
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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 08.06.2019, 20:36

I just wonder if it is possible to get in hold of the paper schematics for EE2004-EE2006?

I have for EE2003, even though some of them are used.

I really don't know if this is neccesary but to make things complete.

Bets regards, Roger
PS
I have a friend that will print my EE2003 and EE2004-EE2006 pdf for free (would cost about $40 each otherwise) fixing the most important things.

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von JeanLuc7 » 08.06.2019, 21:05

Just let me know which ones you are searching for. I have several copies of them.

BR
JeanLuc7

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 08.06.2019, 21:28

Hello JeanLuc7!

What fantastic news!

I would need all of the schematics for EE2004-EE2006.

Do you perhaps have them?

Best regards, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 05.07.2019, 18:57

Hello JeanLuc7!

Have you perhaps missed my private message where I give you my adress?

Or have I done something wrong?

Best regards, Roger

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von JeanLuc7 » 05.07.2019, 19:07

Hi Roger,

Actually, I did not get any message from you containing your address. My last question in my PN was if you prefer the schematics on white paper or on recyced paper. I think I have both of them available. The recycled ones are later issues.

BR
Frank

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Re: EE2003-EE2006 renovieren

Beitrag von rogerk8 » 05.07.2019, 20:54

Hi Frank!

The paper quality does not matter.

Here is my address:

deleted by suntri for security

Best regards, Roger

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